If I Were in Charge, I Would Issue Such an Order: An Excerpt from Serzh Sargsyan's Interrogation

Armlur.am has presented the continuation of the interrogation of the third President of Armenia, Serzh Sargsyan.

Question: You mentioned that there was no discussion during the meeting at the presidential residence on February 23, 2008, as you prioritized the strengthening of discipline in the law enforcement agencies, meaning they should refrain from political events. However, on the same day, February 23, 2008, the Minister of Defense, Mikayel Harutyunyan, signed a highly classified order number 0038. The order was titled "On the Implementation of the Tasks Assigned by the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Armenia" and included the following preamble: "After the results of the presidential elections in the Republic of Armenia were openly and transparently recognized by the international community, some political forces do not accept them and are attempting to destabilize the situation through illegal actions..." What do you say about this, as it is indicated in the preamble of the order that the armed forces were used directly based on the political considerations set by the President of Armenia, given that thousands of citizens dissatisfied with the election results were carrying out peaceful gatherings without weapons?

Answer: As for the legal interpretation of the order, I can say that I am not the one to provide interpretations; the question does not pertain to me. Your assessment is that the armed forces were used for political considerations. As I already mentioned, if I were in charge, I would issue such an order to bring the forces to a barracks situation. The logic of that order is to keep the armed forces away from the political processes. And why do you exclude the possibility that there may have also been information at that time that the protests were not peaceful, even if it was verbal, especially since it was later confirmed that the protesters were armed?

Question: According to Article 10 of the Law on Defense of the Republic of Armenia, the overall management of the armed forces is carried out by the President of the Republic of Armenia and the Government of the Republic of Armenia within the framework of their powers. The direct leadership of the armed forces is the responsibility of the Minister of Defense of the Republic of Armenia. From the analysis of the events, it becomes clear that the use of the armed forces was exclusively reserved for the President of the Republic of Armenia, then-President Robert Kocharian. What do you say regarding the fact that the Minister of Defense did not have the authority to use the armed forces, and thus, order number 0038 was signed under the instruction of the President of Armenia?

Answer: Would we consider declaring a barracks situation as using the army? In that case, you should explain what it means to use the armed forces. Question: The previous question clarified the powers granted to the Minister of Defense under the legislative regulations effective at the time of 2008, which do not allow him the power, in this particular case, to use the armed forces. This does not relate to exercises or annual readiness measures of the armed forces, and such authority was solely reserved for the President of the Republic of Armenia, under which circumstances you are interrogated. Do you have anything to add to your previous answer or not? Answer: I believe that what the then President of Armenia and the Minister of Defense did was within the law and their powers, and I do not intend to make legal assessments.

Question: The declaration of a state of emergency, particularly with the use of armed forces, is intended to temporarily limit fundamental rights and freedoms of individuals and citizens as per the constitution effective in 2008. Considering the importance of the issue, it was stipulated that prior to declaring a state of emergency, the President of Armenia should consult with the Prime Minister and the Speaker of the National Assembly. I suggest you inform whether there was a discussion with you and the Speaker of the National Assembly, Tigran Torosyan. If so, in what format was this discussion held? What position did you express?

Answer: Yes, Robert Kocharian discussed with me before declaring a state of emergency, and during that discussion, he stated that the armed forces would be used under the conditions of the state of emergency. As a result of the discussion, I expressed a positive stance. By the way, let me note that the armed forces were used to protect vital state structures; if I am not mistaken, the discussion took place in the afternoon, but I cannot specify the exact timings.

Question: You mentioned that there was a discussion prior to the President of Armenia signing the order on declaring the state of emergency. I suggest you disclose the bases, information, data, and reports based on which the decision to declare a state of emergency was made on March 1, 2008. Who provided that information, and what was reported about the situation?

Answer: First, the head of the NSS reported to me on my initiative, as I have mentioned, about the breaking of windows and other disturbances (disarming police, beating a member of parliament, etc.). It was also reported that the situation was getting out of control, and the aggression from the protesters was quite significant. Additionally, the President of Armenia informed me of all this, almost the same things that the NSS head reported to me.

Question: During the events of March 1, 2008, eight citizens and two servicemen of the police forces were killed, and various severe injuries were sustained by both police and civilians. When did you become aware of the circumstances surrounding the deaths of those citizens? When did you receive information about each individual's death?

Answer: I cannot provide details, but if my memory serves me right, Gorik Hakobyan told me that a soldier of the police forces was shot, and later information about the casualties and injuries began to come from various hospitals.

Question: During the investigation, it was found that during the meeting at the presidential residence on February 23, after Robert Kocharian declared a state of emergency at 00:00, you proposed to create an administration under the command of Yuri Khachaturov, the head of the Yerevan garrison.

Answer: Let me reiterate; Robert Kocharian did not mention anything about declaring a state of emergency. Secondly, I do not exclude that I may have just asked or mentioned that the garrison commander has deputies or not.

Question: I suggest that you inform whether, from February 23 to March 1, you visited the workplace, i.e., the government building, or not...

Answer: Of course, I visited periodically, even on Saturdays and Sundays. If I'm not mistaken, my office was on the second floor.

Question: At that time, was your security as Prime Minister of Armenia ensured by March 1, 2008? If so, who were the persons responsible for your security? In other words, can you mention any of your bodyguards by name?

Answer: My security was provided by the State Protection Service of the NSS, and the head of security was Vachik Ghazaryan; I cannot recall the other members of the security detail at this time. All of this is documented in the aforementioned state structure; you can check there.

Question: During the investigation, as already mentioned, it was found that all military corps, including from the Defense Army of the Republic of Artsakh, were transferred to Yerevan and stationed in units located in the capital and nearby areas, where exercises were conducted with police officers to counter the protesters, disperse the protest, and neutralize the activists among them. What do you say about this?

Answer: I am not aware of such things; I am hearing about it for the first time. To be continued...

Source: armlur.am